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Sunday, May 26, 2024 - 08:12 PM


First Published in 1994


US-Russia Relations, Nordstream Sabotage, German Economic Suffering

Mike Scruggs Article 2805

In Part 6, Tucker Carlson had asked Vladimir Putin what he had told U.S. President Joe Biden several weeks before the Russian Special Military Operation began on February 24, 2022. This contact between Putin and Biden  occurred on December 7, 2021, and possibly December 30 and January 8, 2022—described by British media as mutual warnings.

Tucker Carlson: What did he say?

Vladimir Putin: Ask him, please. It is easier for you, you are a citizen of the United States, go and ask him. It is not appropriate for me to comment on our conversation.

Tucker Carlson: But you haven’t spoken to him since before February of 2022? [Since December 2021 and possibly January 8, 2022]

Vladimir Putin: No, we haven't spoken. Certain contacts are being maintained though. Speaking of which, do you remember what I told you about my proposal to work together on a missile defense system?

Tucker Carlson: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: You can ask all of them. All of them are safe and sound, thank God. The former President, Condoleezza Rice safe and sound, and, I think, Mr. Gates, and the current Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, Mr. Burns, the then Ambassador to Russia, in my opinion, a very successful Ambassador. They were all witnesses to these conversations. Ask them. [This refers to President Geroge W. Bush and his Secretary of State Condoleezaa Rice  during Bush’s 2005-2009 term.. Robert Gates was Secretary of Defense 2006-2011 under both Bush and Obama.]

Same here, if you are interested in what Mr. President Biden responded to me, ask him. At any rate, I talked to him about it.

Tucker Carlson: I am definitely interested. But from the other side it seems like it could devolve, evolve into something that brings the entire world into conflict, and could initiate a nuclear launch, and so why don’t you just call Biden and say, “let’s work this out”?

Vladimir Putin: What's there to work out? It's very simple. I repeat, we have contacts through various agencies. I will tell you what we are saying on this matter and what we are conveying to the US leadership: ”If you really want to stop fighting, you need to stop supplying weapons. It will be over within a few weeks. That's it. And then we can agree on some terms.  Before you do that, stop.

What's easier? Why would I call him? What should I talk to him about? Or beg him for what? ”You're going to deliver such and such weapons to Ukraine. Oh, I'm afraid, I'm afraid, please don't.“ What is there to talk about?

Tucker Carlson: Do you think NATO was worried about this becoming a global war or nuclear conflict?

Vladimir Putin: At least that's what they're talking about. And they are trying to intimidate their own population with an imaginary Russian threat. This is an obvious fact. And thinking people, not philistines, but thinking people, analysts, those who are engaged in real politics, just smart people understand perfectly well that this is a fake. They are trying to fuel the Russian threat.

Tucker Carlson: The threat I think you were referring to is Russian invasion of Poland, Latvia – expansionist behavior. Can you imagine a scenario where you send Russian troops to Poland?

Vladimir Putin: Only in one case: if Poland attacks Russia. Why? Because we have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else. Why would we do that? We simply don't have any interest. It’s just threat mongering.

Tucker Carlson: Well, the argument, I know you know this, is that, well, he invaded Ukraine – he has territorial aims across the continent. And you are saying unequivocally, you don’t?

Vladimir Putin: It is absolutely out of the question. You just don't have to be any kind of analyst; it goes against common sense to get involved in some kind of global war. And a global war will bring all of humanity to the brink of destruction. It's obvious.

There are, certainly, means of deterrence. They have been scaring everyone with us all along: tomorrow Russia will use tactical nuclear weapons, tomorrow Russia will use that, no, the day after tomorrow. So what? These are just horror stories for people in the street in order to extort additional money from US taxpayers and European taxpayers in the confrontation with Russia in the Ukrainian theatre of war. The goal is to weaken Russia as much as possible.

Tucker Carlson: One of our senior United States senators from the State of New York, Chuck Schumer, said yesterday, I believe, that we have to continue to fund the Ukrainian effort or US soldiers, citizens could wind up fighting there. How do you assess that?

Vladimir Putin: This is a provocation, and a cheap provocation at that.

I do not understand why American soldiers should fight in Ukraine. There are mercenaries from the United States there. The biggest number of mercenaries comes from Poland, with mercenaries from the United States in second place, and mercenaries from Georgia in third place. Well, if somebody has the desire to send regular troops, that would certainly bring humanity on the brink of a very serious, global conflict. This is obvious.

Does the United States need this? What for? Thousands of miles away from your national territory! Don't you have anything better to do?

You have issues on the border, issues with migration, issues with the national debt – more than US $33 trillion. You have nothing better to do, so you should fight in Ukraine? Wouldn't it be better to negotiate with Russia? Make an agreement, already understanding the situation that is developing today, realizing that Russia will fight for its interests to the end. And, realizing this, actually return to common sense, start respecting our country and its interests and look for certain solutions. It seems to me that this is much smarter and more rational.

Tucker Carlson: Who blew up Nord Stream?

Vladimir Putin: You, for sure.

Tucker Carlson: I was busy that day. I did not blow up Nord Stream.

Vladimir Putin: You personally may have an alibi, but the CIA does not have one.

Tucker Carlson: Do you have evidence that NATO or CIA did it?

Vladimir Putin: You know, I won't get into details, but people always say in such cases: ”Look for someone who is interested“. But in this case we should not only look for someone who is interested, but also for someone who has capabilities. Because there may be many people interested, but not all of them are capable of sinking to the bottom of the Baltic Sea and carrying out this explosion. These two components should be connected: who is interested and who is capable of doing it.

Commentary: On September 26-7, 2022,  the Swedish National Seismic Institute detected explosions equal to one-thousand pound mines or torpedoes along both the parallel Nordstream 1 and 2 pipelines southeast of the Danish Island of Bornholm in the Baltic Sea The methane environmental catastrophe rising to the surface was first discovered by a Danish Navy helicopter. Based on 2017 statistics, Germany has been getting 40 percent of its natural gas from Nordstream 1. Nordstream 2 was in the process of opening. The two 759 and 767-mile double pipelines stretching from Russia to Germany had cost $25.4 billion, of which 51 percent costing close to $13 billion was owned by the Russian gas company Gazprom and the rest principally by Germany but also the Netherlands, UK, and Austria.

In January and February 2022, the Biden Administration had clearly threatened to prevent Nordstream 2 from operating if the Russians invaded Ukraine.  On January 27, when reporters were asking U.S. Under Secretary of State Victoria Nuland about Germany’s acute need for natural gas versus enforcing NATO sanctions against Russian natural gas, she warned: "We continue to have strong, clear communication with our German allies. If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward." On February 9, President Biden warned even more ominously: "If Russia invades, that means tanks and troops crossing the border of Ukraine again, then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it. When asked how, Biden said: "We will. I promise you. We will be able to do that." Moreover, Poland’s former Defense and Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski celebrated the September 27 Nordstream blowup with this remark:  “As we say in Polish, a small thing, but so much joy. Thank you USA.”

     On February 8, 2023, celebrated Pulitzer Prize winning investigative reporter, Seymour Hersh, published an article entitled “How America Took Out the Nordstream Pipeline.” In this article he named President Joe Biden, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, Under Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, and National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan as the core planning group and the CIA as the principal agency for carrying out the plan. According to Hersh, U.S. Navy divers temporarily assigned directly to the CIA placed the explosives with help from the Norwegian Navy. Some analysts believe U.S. Navy divers placed the explosives in early September, and a Norwegian Navy P8 patrol aircraft detonated them on September 26-27 by electronic signal on final command from Biden through the CIA. The project was controlled under deceptive language that allowed them to avoid required Congressional scrutiny.

A few days after the explosions, John Helmer, “Dances with Bears,” an experienced Russian expert and foreign correspondent living in Russia, assessed the responsibility, saying that it was executed by the Polish Navy and Special Forces and aided by the Danish and Swedish military. It was, however, orchestrated by the United States. The Russians believe covert American CIA operations are almost always accompanied by British MI6 covert operations.

The CIA continues to develop cover stories, including a May 5, 2023, story that attributed the sabotage to six rogue Ukrainian intelligence and diving personnel on a 50-foot sailing yacht equipped with “very advanced” underwater warfare technology.” The article distances Ukrainian President Zelensky from any responsibility.  

Sweden was left with the final Nordstream investigation but closed it on February 7, 2024, after 16 months. Except for absolving Sweden’s military, they refused to release their conclusions publicly on jurisdictional grounds.

Tucker Carlson: But I am confused. I mean, that’s the biggest act of industrial terrorism ever and it’s the largest emission of CO₂ in history. Okay, so, if you had evidence and presumably, given your security services, your intel services, you would, that NATO, the US, CIA, the West did this, why wouldn’t you present it and win a propaganda victory?

Vladimir Putin: In the war of propaganda it is very difficult to defeat the United States because the United States controls all the world’s media and many European media. The ultimate beneficiary of the biggest European media are American financial institutions. Don't you know that? So it is possible to get involved in this work, but it is cost prohibitive, so to speak. We can simply shine the spotlight on our sources of information, and we will not achieve results. It is clear to the whole world what happened, and even American analysts talk about it directly. It's true.

Tucker Carlson: Yes. But here is a question you may be able to answer. You worked in Germany, famously. The Germans clearly know that their NATO partner did this, that they damaged their economy greatly – it may never recover. Why are they being silent about it? That is very confusing to me. Why wouldn’t the Germans say something about it?

Vladimir Putin: This also confuses me. But today's German leadership is guided by the interests of the collective West rather than its national interests, otherwise it is difficult to explain the logic of their action or inaction. After all, it is not only about Nord Stream-1, which was blown up, and Nord Stream-2 was damaged, but one pipe is safe and sound, and gas can be supplied to Europe through it, but Germany does not open it. We are ready, please.

There is another route through Poland, called Yamal-Europe, which also allows for a large flow. Poland has closed it, but Poland pecks from the German hand, it receives money from pan-European funds, and Germany is the main donor to these pan-European funds. Germany feeds Poland to a certain extent. And they closed the route to Germany. Why? I don't understand. [It is] Ukraine, to which the Germans supply weapons and give money.

Germany is the second sponsor after the United States in terms of financial aid to Ukraine. There are two gas routes through Ukraine. The Ukrainians simply closed one route.  Open the second route and, please, get gas from Russia. They do not open it. Why don't the Germans say: ”Look, guys, we give you money and weapons. Open up the valve, please, let the gas from Russia pass through for us.

[Why don’t the Germans say] We  are buying liquefied gas at exorbitant prices in Europe, which brings the level of our [German] competitiveness, and economy in general down to zero. Do you want us to give you money? Let us have a decent existence, make money for our economy, because this is where the money we give you comes from. They [Ukraine] refuse to do so. Why? Ask them. ( Putin Knocks on the table.) What’s here and what’s in their heads [wood] is the same thing. These people are very incompetent.


Mike ScruggsMike Scruggs is the author of two books: The Un-Civil War: Shattering the Historical Myths; and Lessons from the Vietnam War: Truths the Media Never Told You, and over 600 articles on military history, national security, intelligent design, genealogical genetics, immigration, current political affairs, Islam, and the Middle East.

He holds a BS degree from the University of Georgia and an MBA from Stanford University. A former USAF intelligence officer and Air Commando, he is a decorated combat veteran of the Vietnam War, and holds the Distinguished Flying Cross, Purple Heart, and Air Medal. He is a retired First Vice President for a major national financial services firm and former Chairman of the Board of a classical Christian school.

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